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Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.04.02 11:43:00 - [1] No, if anything the crow needs a cap nerf to get inline with other combat interceptors. The problem that the combat interceptors are outperforming their tackling versions is only seen on 3 mid combat interceptors, ie taranis and crow. The crow got a huge boost by the 80% cap bonus because now everyone is fitting a web in the 3rd mid and doing just fine cap wise. Yes, you have to web your target if youre trying to kill another interceptor, but so does a taranis. There is pretty much no reason except made up ones to boost the crow, really... -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.04.02 11:51:00 - [2] Originally by: Brodde Dim You could offcourse fit a web :P They do fit webs and crows + overheated webs pretty much kill other inties if the pilot doesnt fly it like a noob. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.04.02 11:58:00 - [3] Originally by: welsh wizard Lyria, a taranis does 150dps+, a crow does 50, ie,, its pretty bloody obvious who is going to win in web range. Try to argue the point and not your bias opinion. So? Crow has to win everything? Btw Ive killed taranis'es with maledictions. You can kite a taranis within webrange, especially if you have overheated web (even if he also has it). A crow using 13km web against another inty will kill them if used the right way. You just want easy mode, press orbit, light up guns and win. Well, if you want an inty dead youll have to get into web range and YES you can quite easily kill other inties in web range because you still have RANGE advantage over many inties. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.02 12:06:00 - [4] Originally by: welsh wizard Its impossible to discuss anything with you Lyria so I won't even try. You really are the very definition of why arguing on the internet is akin to headbutting a wall. You fail to acknowledge widely undisputed failings with the Crow as a combat ship so its clear you've already made your mind up, yes you won the argument if thats what you want, now go away. Anyone who has any experience in a Crow and the other interceptors care to comment? So you had no arguments? Because I know you dont have any and youre blaming that on me. I think we all know who knows most about interceptor combat. Ive done 1vs1 against pretty much all inties and I know what they are capable of. Youre claiming crows cant kill anything outside webrange and insta die to all other inties within webrange. IT IS NOT TRUE and you can play all the charades you want. Its not true. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.02 12:21:00 - [5] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 02/04/2008 12:21:53 Originally by: welsh wizard edit: Anyway this isn't supposed to be about the bloody Crow, its about the reversal of roles and heavy modifcation to the Raptor. If you think it'll overpower the Crow as a tackler i'm almost inclined to agree with you, as combat inty its not in the same league as the other 3 though. What about the Raptor? The inties are failed by design overall from the beginning imo. -Why does minmatar have the 4 mid inty but the caldari dont? If anything raptor should have 4 mids and stiletto either 3-4 -Either all combat inties should have minimum of 3 mids OR they shouldnt be allowed to fit webs. Why? Because combat inties with 3 mids obsolete their tackling version, taranis/crow obsolete ares/raptor. -cap recharge vs gun cap usage needs to be looked at so all inties can use guns + mwd equally long time. There pretty much needs to be a total redo of pretty much all the inties to rebalance it again. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.04.02 12:40:00 - [6] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 02/04/2008 12:36:31 Theres always going to be a use for a 30km point so I'm not sure I agree with the 'obsolete' bit. When was the last time you saw an ares or raptor? I sure dont see them often compared to crows, taranis etc. Imagine if crusader would have a 4/3/3 slot layout instead of 4/2/4. No one would use a malediction just for the few km extra scram range. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.02 15:25:00 - [7] Originally by: Ulstan Edited by: Ulstan on 02/04/2008 15:10:46 Does anyone even read Lyria's posts anymore? I mean, the ridiculous bias was amusing at first, but now it's just gotten boring. I think the crow is ok as is, though higly overrated. It does not, contrary to Lyria's claims, need a nerf. Raptor needs a ton of work though, more than any other interceptor. Last patch only made it worse O.o Maybe you should read my post and then explain why the crow is the most commonly flown and most expensive interceptor in the game. As I said, if you want to fix the interceptor balance you have to pretty much redo all inties. With heat added some interceptors, the high dps ones like taranis, will face pwn the others because it can overcome its one disadvantage (speed) long enough to catch the opponent. The only reason why no one uses raptor and ares is because crow and taranis have 3 mids. If you would remove a mid from crow and taranis youd see alot more people flying raptor. Does your post actually have a solution like my post or are you just making claims that are vaguely true? -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.04.02 15:58:00 - [8] Originally by: Red Wid0w Edited by: Red Wid0w on 02/04/2008 15:54:52 maybe the people in your area of space didn't get the memo yet? Im pretty sure they didnt. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.04.02 20:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Red Wid0w They still hit for reduced damage, and the base dps is lousy anyway. It's embarassing to lose to Crow. Have you even compared range and dps for the long range interceptors? You do know crows dps is pretty darn good for its range. But let me guess, youre comparing crow dps to rockets, blasters and pulse lasers right? -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.04 17:28:00 - [10] Originally by: Lisento Slaven Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 02/04/2008 12:36:31 Theres always going to be a use for a 30km point so I'm not sure I agree with the 'obsolete' bit. When was the last time you saw an ares or raptor? I sure dont see them often compared to crows, taranis etc. Imagine if crusader would have a 4/3/3 slot layout instead of 4/2/4. No one would use a malediction just for the few km extra scram range. I saw an Ares last night. In fact it was probably the reason my poor little Executioner didn't get away =( What does a theoretical 4/3/3 Crusader have to do with a Crow not being able to hurt other interceptors? The only thing I see in the OP, that is being complained about, is that speed has made it so that rockets do not do a whole lot to interceptors at full speed. I don't see a reason for that to change atm. I was explaining why people tend to fly crows instead of raptors and taranii instead of arii. Both taranis and crow do the tackling job basically just as well as their tackling version. And you're dead wrong if you think crows with webs cant kill other interceptors. Just because the wast majority of chicken-cookie-cutter-noob crow pilots never have tried doesnt mean the crow cant. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.05 14:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Zhecao Vai Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I was explaining why people tend to fly crows instead of raptors and taranii instead of arii. Both taranis and crow do the tackling job basically just as well as their tackling version. That's a nice generalization, but it's got no basis in fact. Nobody flies a Taranis "instead of" an Ares. An Ares is a way better tackler, since it is a lot faster, gets the 28km scram range, and also has much better lock range. An Ares and Taranis are as different as it gets while remaining in the same ship class. A good pilot with high nav skills and overheat skills flies a taranis. A noob flies ares an that might suit him better until he gets his nav skill up. I think it is you that doesnt know anything about inties. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.04.05 16:43:00 - [12] Originally by: Red Wid0w Just stop posting Lyria, you are a clueless Troll. Taranis is NOT a better tackler than Ares. I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth or I'll return the favor of putting something else in yours. A taranis is an better inty then ares overall, in the hands of a high skill player. End of story. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.04.06 14:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Bronson Hughes Originally by: Lyria Skydancer A taranis is an better inty then ares overall, in the hands of a high skill player. End of story. At killing other 'Ceptors, or killing things in general in fact, that is a true statement. Loads of DPS, decent speed, good tracking. With really good gunnery and navigation skills that thing can be a DPS monster. But for pure tackle duty, the Ares blows the Taranis away. Longer range point, longer lock range, far faster; there's simply no comparison. It's quite possibly the best pure tackler in the game. The down side is that it has a hard time killing anything at all. The Taranis is a combat 'Ceptor, the Ares is a fleet tackle 'Ceptor. A really good pilot flies them both and knows when to fly which. A taranis can tackle successfully in 95% of tackling situtations in a gang as a tackler. The thing is that taranis also has the power of chasing off tacklers from your own gang. Ares is just slightly better at tackling then taranis but the taranis does everything else a thousand times better. That is my point and if you don't know this then you don't know anything about interceptors. There is simply not much reason to fly an ares over a taranis if you have high nav skills + overheating. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.06 14:26:00 - [14] Originally by: Zhecao Vai Originally by: Lyria Skydancer A good pilot with high nav skills and overheat skills flies a taranis. A noob flies ares an that might suit him better until he gets his nav skill up. I think it is you that doesnt know anything about inties. Well, there isn't much content in your post, so I'm not sure what to argue with. I'm an experienced interceptor pilot with perfect nav skills and Thermodynamics 4, and I have flown an Ares a few times, and a Taranis a lot of times. If you have anything to say, then say it. You tell me, how many times have you failed tackling something just because you were in a taranis instead an ares? -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.06 14:53:00 - [15] Originally by: Zhecao Vai Edited by: Zhecao Vai on 06/04/2008 14:33:02 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer You tell me, how many times have you failed tackling something just because you were in a taranis instead an ares? I don't fly a Taranis in situations where I'm expected to be tackling people for a gang, so I don't know. I fly a Taranis when I intend to kamikaze into people with blasters. Please note that I added a lot of content to my above post. I suggest you try it. You won't really notice a difference. Except that you can actually chase off and kill interceptors too as a bonus. Btw railranis is a perfectly viable fit too and no a blasteranis as a gang tackler is not very suicidal. Targets won't bother killing you in 95% of cases. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.04.06 17:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Caelum Dominus Originally by: Lyria Skydancer You tell me, how many times have you failed tackling something just because you were in a taranis instead an ares? Personally, so many times I've lost count. The Ares is far superior to the Taranis for tackling duty for all the reasons listed above, not to mention how it can stay outside Heavy Neutralizer range whereas the Taranis cannot. In theory your point might be true. But this proves nothing but you playing theory eve and are clueless about how things actually work in pvp when you sit in an inty. Taranis tackles just fine and is simply a better ship. Just like crows is simply better then a raptor. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.04.06 17:30:00 - [17] Originally by: welsh wizard Originally by: Zhecao Vai Originally by: General Paul Caldari ceptors role reversal ? Why are y'all talking about gallente and amaar ceptors ? Because balancing two interceptors requires looking at the balance of the other six. Not really, the Raptors crap and needs a boost and the Crow would just be going sideways if it had some other kind of nerf when it gains the 30km point. You got some nerve to simply want to boost a crow without adjusting any of the other ships. The most popular inty. You must be dreaming. Seriously, the crow is actually good on tranq, in eft and in theory. Please stop your nonsense. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.04.06 17:31:00 - [18] Originally by: Zhecao Vai Originally by: General Paul Caldari ceptors role reversal ? Why are y'all talking about gallente and amaar ceptors ? Because balancing two interceptors requires looking at the balance of the other six. Try explaining that. People never see the big picture with balance. It's all "give me new FOTM because I suck ass". WoW is that way --->> -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.06 21:09:00 - [19] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 06/04/2008 21:10:28 Originally by: Caelum Dominus Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 06/04/2008 20:51:32 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer In theory your point might be true. But this proves nothing but you playing theory eve and are clueless about how things actually work in pvp when you sit in an inty. Taranis tackles just fine and is simply a better ship. Just like crows is simply better then a raptor. I have been flying exclusively Interceptors since I started playing the game. I fail to understand how you can disregard the fact that the Taranis cannot tackle outside reach of heavy neutralizers. Even disregarding this vital fact, a ship that isn't cap stable and struggles to break 5000m/s (assuming a reasonably effective blaster-oriented fit) does not tackle "just fine" by any standards but yours. Hopefully once you try these ships in their respective areas of expertise you will realize that the Ares is far better suited for tackling. Ok I'll explain: We are talking about acting as a small-medium-large gang tackler in a taranis. 1. Your gang waits for a solo ship to jump in through a gate. a) Ship is a frig, destroyer, cruiser -Anything ares can lock a taranis can lock. Both are fast enough to point and web. You won't die just because you web this target 99.99% of times. It's safe. b) A battleship jumps through -Ares tackles it beyond heavy neut range -Taranis tackles it close up A lone BS will rarely even put up a fight and not all those who even do have a heavy neut fitted. Your taranis will do the tackling job just as fine in 85% of these cases. 2. Your gang is fighting another similarly sized gang. medium - large fleet fights. -The ares is a bit faster and has a bit longer point then the taranis -Only a very very small portion of targets will not be tackled because: a) taranis was too slow b) target was a BS that neuted or killed the taranis c) taranis didnt get the point in time because of the shorter range So there taranis might miss like 5% of targets compared to an ares. BUT add to this that the taranis in this mess also can opt to go after other inties and frigs. A taranis will kill those within seconds because with overheated mwd and web a taranis can catch another inty without any problem in a fleet fight. Ares on the other hand sucks compared to the taranis in this aspect. Both a crow and a taranis utterly out perform their tackling versions if you can overload mwds and webs. They are only slightly worse at tackling but are extremely superior in other aspects. There is simply no reason, unless youre low skilled AND (note not or) want to dedicate yourself for tackling, to pick an ares or raptor instead of a taranis or crow. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.06 21:18:00 - [20] Originally by: Vanessa Vale Originally by: Lyria Skydancer -Why does minmatar have the 4 mid inty but the caldari dont? If anything raptor should have 4 mids and stiletto either 3-4 Yes! It is time to end the minmatar inty supremacy! Lets exchange interceptors with caldari! Losing the claw will be soooo painful. I've already discussed this. Stiletto could still have 4 but the raptor should have atleast as many as the stiletto. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer	Posted - 2008.04.07 12:34:00 - [21] Originally by: Caelum Dominus Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 07/04/2008 07:28:05 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer - There are more than two scenarios in the vast world of tackling. For example, it's quite realistic to assume that you will be required to tackle a lone battleship until support arrives. Also, it's common for an Interceptor to be required to travel long distances in order to scramble an enemy ship. These (and many more) are tasks that are better performed by the Ares. The scenario of tackling a BS alone very very rarely happens. But yes ares would be better IN CASE the target happens to have a heavy neut. It will basically never happen that you 1. Be able to track a BS in a belt or similar (around gates you dont need to tackle for long) 2. BS has a heavy neut You'll do fine in a taranis 99% of ops. You'll also rarely miss a target just because you didnt warp at 13.5au/s but "only" warped at 9au/s. Most warp distances are so short for interceptors that the time diff is negligable. No, there are not that many situations that commonly occur where you really NEED to be in ares. Taranis does just fine. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II
Lyria Skydancer Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.07 16:18:00 - [22] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 07/04/2008 16:18:29 Originally by: Caelum Dominus There are not that many situations that commonly occur where you need to be in a Taranis, either. "Just fine" may be sufficient by your standards, but certainly not for those of us who dedicate ourselves to tackling. You'll encounter frigs/inties/destroyer type of ships in most encounters. You pose a SERIOUS threat to ships like that when you have a dps around 200. So no, Taranis actually is a better interceptor overall for the skilled player. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare II

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